[OT] Re: Clang should natively support fortran

This is going down a rabbit hole pretty far off topic, but the most
sincere answer I can give
--------
Linux, OSX and Windows

I'm a pretty strong Fortran advocate and even I wouldn't have any
argument about trying to keep Fortran support in the FBSD base system.
Why???!

Does FBSD have optimized math libraries?
GPGPU support?
IB drivers support?
Is anyone shipping HPC solutions for FreeBSD
Is anyone actually testing the codes..
(I won't even go into the kernel side of things..)

In general I don't even know if typical common HPC codes will build on
FBSD... I have a strong doubt anyone tests it.

Time and energy is probably better spent focusing on improving things
your community actually needs.

I disagree.

You seem to focus on the business use of the OS, and ignore some other uses.
Do you know about Jupyter notebook software (http://jupyter.org)? It allows
to create the interactive math- and physics-based books that allow the
reader to explore and experiment with formulas and computations right inside
the book? A lot of Jupyter uses fortran-based libraries in the background.

From a user perspective jupyter appears to be a web app and you'd only

need Chrome or some modern browser.. (wait does FreeBSB even have
Chrome...). So unless I'm mistaken, this would only matter if their
servers are running FreeBSD. (Which I doubt)

And Jupiter is a pretty cool thing. There is also the symbolic computer
algebra Cadabra2 (http://cadabra.science) that also uses fortran in the
background. And many other packages use fortran too.

FreeBSD has a lot of advantages compared to Linux, OSX and Windows. For
example, on FreeBSD you can have a 100% open source system

Licensing is a matter of opinion and not a technical merit. Please
lets not bring religion into the discussion.

, and all Linux

distros always mix in some random third party-built binaries. This is a
security risk. FreeBSD doesn't just grab the latest versions of packages
from github like linux distros do. This is another security risk.

I'm very far from linux advocate, but this is disappointing FUD

You can't

just blow this off, these are very significant advantages. And how can you
make a case for the business use of Windows or OSX on a computation farm?

Windows and OSX Fortran is mostly from the development side. If you
were a scientist and actually writing Fortran code every day you may
understand this.

Why add the licensing costs? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Following your logic, nobody should do any new things because there is some
gigantic industry already doing things some other way. Why even develop
clang if there is gcc that already compiles everything fine?

Maybe this is just confusion between English and your native language..

I was just trying to say that FreeBSD probably has more important
things to focus on. Even if clang had Fortran support, I doubt anyone
would use FreeBSD as their platform for building a cluster or
scientific codes development.

>From a user perspective jupyter appears to be a web app and you'd only
need Chrome or some modern browser.. (wait does FreeBSB even have
Chrome...). So unless I'm mistaken, this would only matter if their
servers are running FreeBSD. (Which I doubt)

There is no user vs. "them", it is the local web server serving the local client.

And Jupiter is a pretty cool thing. There is also the symbolic computer
algebra Cadabra2 (http://cadabra.science) that also uses fortran in the
background. And many other packages use fortran too.

FreeBSD has a lot of advantages compared to Linux, OSX and Windows. For
example, on FreeBSD you can have a 100% open source system

Licensing is a matter of opinion and not a technical merit. Please
lets not bring religion into the discussion.

I am not religious. I am just saying that business reasoning is a thing in itself, which has no relation to what is technically superior.

, and all Linux

distros always mix in some random third party-built binaries. This is a
security risk. FreeBSD doesn't just grab the latest versions of packages
from github like linux distros do. This is another security risk.

I'm very far from linux advocate, but this is disappointing FUD

No it isn't, it is factually correct. You just never looked how linux packages are built.

You can't

just blow this off, these are very significant advantages. And how can you
make a case for the business use of Windows or OSX on a computation farm?

Windows and OSX Fortran is mostly from the development side. If you
were a scientist and actually writing Fortran code every day you may
understand this.

Sorry, I don't know what are you talking about.

Why add the licensing costs? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Following your logic, nobody should do any new things because there is some
gigantic industry already doing things some other way. Why even develop
clang if there is gcc that already compiles everything fine?

Maybe this is just confusion between English and your native language..

English is my native language. Maybe it's your native language, Mr. Bergström, that is in the way?

I was just trying to say that FreeBSD probably has more important
things to focus on. Even if clang had Fortran support, I doubt anyone
would use FreeBSD as their platform for building a cluster or
scientific codes development.

You said this already, and I said that I respectfully disagreed.

Regards,

Yuri

Hi C Bergström,

I think several of your comments on this thread (and the original one) are inappropriate. For example, it's rude to imply that others lack proficiency in English because of misunderstandings unrelated to issues of grammar/mechanics/etc. As another example, it's belittling to suggest to a member of another community what to spend time and energy on.

C Bergström wrote:
Sorry to troll your post, but who on earth uses FreeBSD+Fortran?

The next time you suspect you may be trolling, please do not send the email.

C Bergström wrote:

This is going down a rabbit hole pretty far off topic, but [...]

Ditto. If you are aware this is about to happen, please do not send the email.

thanks,
vedant

My most polite reply - Sorry, but there's so many troll posts on this
mailing list that you should moderate them all evenly. I don't
consider may of the replies as being OT.. so badger everyone equally
please. cya